Activists in Vermont town want Bush, Cheney subject to arrest

[Old Round Guy]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html

Excerpt

MONTPELIER, Vermont (AP) -- President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

A group in Brattleboro is petitioning to put an item on a town meeting agenda in March that would make Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney subject to arrest and indictment if they visit the southeastern Vermont community.

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive.

As president, Bush has visited every state except Vermont.

End excerpt

[Drivesme]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html

Excerpt

MONTPELIER, Vermont (AP) -- President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

A group in Brattleboro is petitioning to put an item on a town meeting agenda in March that would make Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney subject to arrest and indictment if they visit the southeastern Vermont community.

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive.

As president, Bush has visited every state except Vermont.

End excerpt

I think we all know that nothing could come of this, as much as it should happen, it won't.

However, we also know that at some point in the future a law school will have a mock trial for bush and cheney and I think we all know what the out come of that trial will be.

[Notus Lotus]

I think we all know that nothing could come of this, as much as it should happen, it won't.

However, we also know that at some point in the future a law school will have a mock trial for bush and cheney and I think we all know what the out come of that trial will be.

Do you really think they won't ever be held accountable for their war crimes?
I was listening to somebody today who said everyone in Washington is so entrenched in the beltway mentality that there will never be a day of reckoning for these criminals. I just don't see how that's possible in a nation that prides itself on its justice.

Sounds like the activists in Brattleboro feel the same way. I figure it's a start.

[Notus Lotus]

We'll start with violating the Geneva Conventions.

[Notus Lotus]

What? You're not making any sense.

Did you read the link?

[Old Round Guy]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22620

Excerpt

I. FIFTEEN Charges of HIGH CRIMES for Impeaching Bush and Cheney, by Mike Brower

1. Lying about Iraq a) having WMD, b) seeking Uranium in Africa, c) having Aluminum tubes for processing it, and d) involvement in 9/11 - all to justify the pre-planned invasion.

2. Waging an illegal war of aggression against Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands

3. Holding prisoners in Guantanamo and other prisons without allowing them to exercise their rights, including the right to be charged with a crime, to have access to attorneys, and the rights of habeas corpus, which "Shall not be suspended..." Art. I, Sect. 9

4. Torturing war prisoners, Violating US Constitution Amend. VIII & Geneva Convention.

5. Inventing a totally new category of "Enemy Combatants" to justify these crimes.

6. Sending prisoners to other countries, called "Rendition," for them to be tortured.

7. Failing to take leadership to destroy nuclear weapons in Russia, the US and around the world, and therefore paving the way for eventual world total nuclear destruction. When that INEVITABLY happens, some day, if we do not destroy and outlaw all Nuclear Weapons, any survivors will look back and ask why did we, you and I and Bush and Cheney, together with other countries, NOT do the obvious and destroy all these weapons?

8. Wiretaps of US citizens without obtaining Court Orders, which he admitted were required.

9. Failure to prepare adequately in the Gulf Coast for Katrina, after the US Corps of Engineers repeatedly reported that the levees were inadequate, and needed rebuilding, and then failing to provide proper evacuation and care of hundreds of thousands of refugees.

10. Pressuring US Attorneys to use political criteria in their work, and firing 8 without cause.

11. Building a huge military-industrial-academic complex taking half the federal budget.

12. Using 9/11 as an excuse to create a pre-planned American empire and to try to rule the whole world with US military and economic power, fear, and tyranny.

13. Massively re-distributing wealth and income in the US from the poor to the very rich.

14. Creating huge trade deficits, leaving the US vulnerable to nations holding our debt, and huge budget deficits, leaving us in enormous debt and vulnerable to economic disaster.

15. Failing to invest in solar and wind and other alternative energies. Instead, denying global warming and making energy policy in secret with oil & coal Execs who denied it.

End excerpt


I highlighted some articles that I feel are important in this document.

There are several articles of impeachment against the bush administration from several different sources. When one reads the reference in the lead post that's basically what the activists have in mind.

I don't really understand why Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table, it seems to me like there's more than enough substance for impeachment.

[Notus Lotus]

I don't think there's anything funny about it. Why do you?

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive."


Why do you take so lightly the crimes of this administration? I would think an America lover of any political persuasion would be extremely upset and welcome retribution against the scoundrels who sully our great country.

[Drivesme]

Do you really think they won't ever be held accountable for their war crimes?
I was listening to somebody today who said everyone in Washington is so entrenched in the beltway mentality that there will never be a day of reckoning for these criminals. I just don't see how that's possible in a nation that prides itself on its justice.

Sounds like the activists in Brattleboro feel the same way. I figure it's a start.

No, they will never be held accountable for any of the crimes they have committed, let alone the war crimes.

It's sad but true.
The best we can hope for is the mock trial or maybe another country might attempt to press charges but that is a long shot at best.

[Old Round Guy]

Quote
The measure asks: "Shall the Selectboard instruct the Town Attorney to draft indictments against President Bush and Vice President Cheney for crimes against our Constitution, and publish said indictment for consideration by other municipalities?"
Unquote


Everyone pretty much agrees that the probability of it happening is very remote.

But consider the precedent.

Are they talking about the U.S. Constitution, or the Constitution of the state of Vermont?

They're essentially asking that if the U.S. Government fails to do it's Constitutioinal duty might it fall under the jurisdiction of the Vermont Constitution?

Might it be in the purview of cities in Vermont to uphold such authority?

[Notus Lotus]

No, they will never be held accountable for any of the crimes they have committed, let alone the war crimes.

It's sad but true.
The best we can hope for is the mock trial or maybe another country might attempt to press charges but that is a long shot at best.

I understand Germany and Italy both have arrest warrants out for CIA agents for their kidnapping and torture tactics. That's another good start. And since the buck always stops at the President's desk, while he's on his worldwide "good will" tour, he should probably stop by Germany and Italy to answer his accusers.

[Old Round Guy]

I think I've stated several times that I never thought bush should have been
(S)elected in the first place. I never voted for him because I anticipated the disasters he's brought on this great nation.

It should be relatively obvious to the most casual observer that I think bush should have been impeached several years ago.

[Notus Lotus]

You state that the probability of this happening is very remote. I'd have to say that crap like this wastes taxpayer time and money. I think if they want to make a political statement to do it on their own time and not with taxpayer money. It's nothing more than a few disgruntled people with BDS who are abusing their authority and overstepping their bounds.

Do you agree with Rosie O'Donnell that the US Senate should begin impeachment proceedings on President Bush?

I'd say that taxpayers are among the majority of people who want to find out the truth about this whole debacle. No waste of time and money there.

I was one of 150,000 (as of last week) people who have signed Congressman Wexler's petition for impeachment of Cheney. ( a good start)

I love Rosie O'Donnell and agree with her that Congress should start impeachment procedings.

[Notus Lotus]

Rosie didn't say congress. She said the US Senate. Do you agree with Rosie O'Donnell?

LOL! That tired old "gotcha" hasn't got anybody I know of.

I agree wholeheartedly that Bush needs to be impeached.

[Old Round Guy]

In the 2000 elections bush was (S)elected to go the White House by a 5-4 decision of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Al Gore bowed out rather than prolong the process any further. If he had NOT done so he would have won, whether anyone wants to believe that or not.

Since then the mechanics of Florida politics, led by W's brother, then Gov. Jeb Bush and his administration, and which led to that SCOTUS decision have been made public.

Most people believe that election was stolen.

[Notus Lotus]

No, that is not the "gotcha". That is still to come. Do you agree with Rosie O'Donnell that the US Senate should begin impeachment proceedings on Bush? Agree or disagree? Simple.


I've already told you a couple of times that I completely agree with Rosie O'Donnell that Bush needs impeaching. What part of that don't you understand?

[Notus Lotus]

I'll try again. Rosie said the US Senate should begin impeachment proceedings on Bush. Do you agree with that statement? Yes or no? Simple answer. Yes or no is sufficient.

I'll decide for myself whether a yes or no answer is sufficient, thanks.
In this case, it isn't as simple as yes or no, as you want me to say I agree with Rosie that the Senate should impeach Bush. If you had read my previous post where I stated I had signed Rep. Wexler's petition, you might have figured out I know full well where impeachment proceedings arise.

Next question?

[Drivesme]

LOL! That tired old "gotcha" hasn't got anybody I know of.

I agree wholeheartedly that Bush needs to be impeached.

That one is tired and old!

[Notus Lotus]

That one is tired and old!

And stupid to boot!

[Drivesme]

And stupid to boot!

Goes without saying.

[McGyver]

I agree. Rosie O'Donnell is stupid. That was the point. Anyone with any knowledge at all would know that impeachment begins in the house, not the senate. My point was to show how stupid Rosie O'Donnell is.


Who cares??? My point is that Bush and Cheney are crooks and deserve to be impeached!

"IMPEACHMENT, IT'S NOT JUST FOR BLOWJOBS ANYMORE!"

[JIMV]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html

Excerpt

MONTPELIER, Vermont (AP) -- President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

A group in Brattleboro is petitioning to put an item on a town meeting agenda in March that would make Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney subject to arrest and indictment if they visit the southeastern Vermont community.

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive.

As president, Bush has visited every state except Vermont.

End excerpt

Yes, I can see it all now...pudgy, hairy legged, affirmative action female police hire tries to get past the secret service to 'arrest' the President because nutty leftie town council wants her to.

Should make for good TV.

[JIMV]

Do you really think they won't ever be held accountable for their war crimes?
I was listening to somebody today who said everyone in Washington is so entrenched in the beltway mentality that there will never be a day of reckoning for these criminals. I just don't see how that's possible in a nation that prides itself on its justice.

Sounds like the activists in Brattleboro feel the same way. I figure it's a start.

If Clinton walked, anyone under a cannibal mass murder will walk. Get used to the idea.

[JIMV]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22620

Excerpt

I. FIFTEEN Charges of HIGH CRIMES for Impeaching Bush and Cheney, by Mike Brower

1. Lying about Iraq a) having WMD, b) seeking Uranium in Africa, c) having Aluminum tubes for processing it, and d) involvement in 9/11 - all to justify the pre-planned invasion.

2. Waging an illegal war of aggression against Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands

3. Holding prisoners in Guantanamo and other prisons without allowing them to exercise their rights, including the right to be charged with a crime, to have access to attorneys, and the rights of habeas corpus, which "Shall not be suspended..." Art. I, Sect. 9

4. Torturing war prisoners, Violating US Constitution Amend. VIII & Geneva Convention.

5. Inventing a totally new category of "Enemy Combatants" to justify these crimes.

6. Sending prisoners to other countries, called "Rendition," for them to be tortured.

7. Failing to take leadership to destroy nuclear weapons in Russia, the US and around the world, and therefore paving the way for eventual world total nuclear destruction. When that INEVITABLY happens, some day, if we do not destroy and outlaw all Nuclear Weapons, any survivors will look back and ask why did we, you and I and Bush and Cheney, together with other countries, NOT do the obvious and destroy all these weapons?

8. Wiretaps of US citizens without obtaining Court Orders, which he admitted were required.

9. Failure to prepare adequately in the Gulf Coast for Katrina, after the US Corps of Engineers repeatedly reported that the levees were inadequate, and needed rebuilding, and then failing to provide proper evacuation and care of hundreds of thousands of refugees.

10. Pressuring US Attorneys to use political criteria in their work, and firing 8 without cause.

11. Building a huge military-industrial-academic complex taking half the federal budget.

12. Using 9/11 as an excuse to create a pre-planned American empire and to try to rule the whole world with US military and economic power, fear, and tyranny.

13. Massively re-distributing wealth and income in the US from the poor to the very rich.

14. Creating huge trade deficits, leaving the US vulnerable to nations holding our debt, and huge budget deficits, leaving us in enormous debt and vulnerable to economic disaster.

15. Failing to invest in solar and wind and other alternative energies. Instead, denying global warming and making energy policy in secret with oil & coal Execs who denied it.

End excerpt


I highlighted some articles that I feel are important in this document.

There are several articles of impeachment against the bush administration from several different sources. When one reads the reference in the lead post that's basically what the activists have in mind.

I don't really understand why Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table, it seems to me like there's more than enough substance for impeachment.

Someday, someone on the left will actually read this old bromide list and note it is BS. Till then we have our cast of regulars posting it every week or so as though repetion of BS somehow changes it to ambosia.

Sad

[Drivesme]

Someday, someone on the left will actually read this old bromide list and note it is BS. Till then we have our cast of regulars posting it every week or so as though repetion of BS somehow changes it to ambosia.

Sad

'Repetion' of BS seemed to work for your party.
It got us into a war with a country that posed no threat what so ever.
Some of you still fall for it.

[McGyver]

'Repetion' of BS seemed to work for your party.
It got us into a war with a country that posed no threat what so ever.
Some of you still fall for it.

LOL....Great point Drivesme.

Yep, this Cabal of Crooks, Liars and Thieves even have the balls to come out NOW and say it was the "Democrats" who rushed Bush to War Iraq! Oh, and don't forget, they NEVER said WMD was a major reason for the War in Iraq....Oh, and by the way...NOW....Bush says they "Were never STAY THE COURSE." How the hell many times did we hear that phrase "STAY THE COURSE" come out of the mouth of our Liar and Chief, and all of his Administration? THOUSANDS OF TIMES!

These people are such freaking liars, that even their own party shakes their heads whenever these people come out with these whoppers. The have a tendency to revise history, days after it happens, and they think "no one will notice." And unforutnately, many on The Right don't notice. Plus, of course, they have more balls then brains.

[Drivesme]

LOL....Great point Drivesme.

Yep, this Cabal of Crooks, Liars and Thieves even have the balls to come out NOW and say it was the "Democrats" who rushed Bush to War Iraq! Oh, and don't forget, they NEVER said WMD was a major reason for the War in Iraq....Oh, and by the way...NOW....Bush says they "Were never STAY THE COURSE." How the hell many times did we hear that phrase "STAY THE COURSE" come out of the mouth of our Liar and Chief, and all of his Administration? THOUSANDS OF TIMES!

These people are such freaking liars, that even their own party shakes their heads whenever these people come out with these whoppers. The have a tendency to revise history, days after it happens, and they think "no one will notice." And unforutnately, many on The Right don't notice. Plus, of course, they have more balls then brains.

Well lets give them the credit due, they notice the lies, they just don't have the stones to admit to them.
It's easier to follow and do what the radio tells them to do, blame the 'liberals' (or Clinton) for everything.

[Notus Lotus]

Yes, I can see it all now...pudgy, hairy legged, affirmative action female police hire tries to get past the secret service to 'arrest' the President because nutty leftie town council wants her to.

Should make for good TV.

Would you feel better about it if anorexic,Botoxed, smooth-legged, plastic-titted bleached blonde affirmative action female police hires enforced the law?

[Notus Lotus]

Someday, someone on the left will actually read this old bromide list and note it is BS. Till then we have our cast of regulars posting it every week or so as though repetion of BS somehow changes it to ambosia.

Sad

The only sad around here is somebody who is so blind (or perhaps, so criminally-minded) that the list of crimes perpetrated by Bushco seems like perfectly legitimate activity.

Really sad.

And creepy,too.

[Notus Lotus]

Anybody see the NYTimes editorial today?

Talk about an indictment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

Spin it, Righties.

[JIMV]

'Repetion' of BS seemed to work for your party.
It got us into a war with a country that posed no threat what so ever.
Some of you still fall for it.

Yeah, no threat at all...just ask Kuwait, Iran, and a few hundred Iraqi's killed by that poor harmless regime.

[Notus Lotus]

I'm not into chicks, but to arrest violators of my civil rights, I'd feel much better about the two hippy girls.

For investigations into tanning spray illegalities, the plastics on the bottom will fit the bill nicely, I'm sure.

[Drivesme]

Yeah, no threat at all...just ask Kuwait, Iran, and a few hundred Iraqi's killed by that poor harmless regime.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[JIMV]

Truth too much for you?:eek:

[Drivesme]

Truth too much for you?:eek:

It appears to evade you.