Did anyone note the Asian markets today?

[JIMV]

The Nikkei is down over 600 points and gold is over $850...

I wrote last August on the old forum that the issue in 08 would be the economy, not a won war.

[McGyver]

The Nikkei is down over 600 points and gold is over $850...

I wrote last August on the old forum that the issue in 08 would be the economy, not a won war.

That could very well be Jim. So in that case who would your choice be for President and WHY....based on the Economy being our "Big Issue" in 2008 and 2009?

[Drivesme]

The Nikkei is down over 600 points and gold is over $850...

I wrote last August on the old forum that the issue in 08 would be the economy, not a won war.

Bold prediction considering that it is always the economy.
The lost war will be a major factor, don't discount it.

The economy is the crapper and swirling for the flush, that is what 26 years of reagonomics gets you.

We used to be the number 1 creditor nation, now we are the #1 debtor nation, we used to be the largest exporter of mfg'ed goods, now the largest importer.
We used to be the largest importer of raw materials, now we are the largest exporter, folks exporting resources is what 3 rd world nations do!

The list goes on and on, we need to fix this and fix it now.
reagonomics has destroyed this country.

[JIMV]

That could very well be Jim. So in that case who would your choice be for President and WHY....based on the Economy being our "Big Issue" in 2008 and 2009?

Hard call as no one is really adressing that issue yet. I would look for someone with experience running something large, meeting payrole, and living within his means. That eliminates all the dems but Richardson and most of the republicans but Huckabee, Romney and perhaps Paul. Of those three I like Romney best, could vote for Huckabe and find Paul too lost in the 1930's to take seriously. I don't like Richardsons views on foreign affairs and find his actions on immigration wrong.

[JIMV]

The list goes on and on, we need to fix this and fix it now.
reagonomics has destroyed this country.

Reaganomics? I always thought it was 60 years of promising everyone a free lunch that someone else will pay for, not Reaganomics but classic leftist liberalism and pandering.

[Bruce McAuley]

Nothing new for the Repubs...
They never met a weapons system or gun they didn't like.:rolleyes:

Bruce

[JIMV]

Gun systems don't vote....classic democrat is to steal money from those republicans and give it to the 'needy', for free, in exchange for votes. With republicans we end up with weapons. With the dems we end up with worthless dems....

[McGyver]

Reaganomics? I always thought it was 60 years of promising everyone a free lunch that someone else will pay for, not Reaganomics but classic leftist liberalism and pandering.

REALLY???? And here I always thought it was because rather than raise a tax, or cut a spending bill, Reagan, Bush and Republicans would much rather BORROW TRILLIONS of DOLLARS to cover our expenses, just to ensure they would get elected again. And then of course blame Democrats and poor people for the huge deficits!:rolleyes:


************************************************** *****

[Drivesme]

Reaganomics? I always thought it was 60 years of promising everyone a free lunch that someone else will pay for, not Reaganomics but classic leftist liberalism and pandering.
Once again you are wrong.
The decline of the nation began with reagan.

[Drivesme]

Gun systems don't vote....classic democrat is to steal money from those republicans and give it to the 'needy', for free, in exchange for votes. With republicans we end up with weapons. With the dems we end up with worthless dems....
Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Bruce McAuley]

Defense lobbyists have no say?
Gimme a break, Jim!:rolleyes:

Bruce

[McGyver]

Lather, rinse, repeat.

EXACTLY....Sounds like a Broken Record and a Severe Case of LDS if you ask me! (And no, I don't mean the Religion! :D)

LDS = LIBERAL DERANGEMENT SYNDROME


************************************************** ***********************************************

[JIMV]

Defense lobbyists have no say?
Gimme a break, Jim!:rolleyes:

Bruce

Compared to the milions of victims the dems created and maintain...come on, you know better.

[McGyver]

Originally Posted by bruce mcauley
Defense lobbyists have no say?
Gimme a break, Jim!

Bruce


Compared to the milions of victims the dems created and maintain...come on, you know better.

:D Right.....and who do you think Buys MORE Access and Influence....all those little "victims?" OR.....all those NRA Lobbyists and Defense Contractors??? Ummmm....Gee, Let me guess!



************************************************** ************************************************** ***

[JIMV]

Originally Posted by bruce mcauley
Defense lobbyists have no say?
Gimme a break, Jim!

Bruce




:D Right.....and who do you think Buys MORE Access and Influence....all those little "victims?" OR.....all those NRA Lobbyists and Defense Contractors??? Ummmm....Gee, Let me guess!



************************************************** ************************************************** ***

Ask John Edwards..he is the fellow relying on class pandering for votes, and might just get enough

[McGyver]

Right.....and who do you think Buys MORE Access and Influence....all those little "victims?" OR.....all those NRA Lobbyists and Defense Contractors??? Ummmm....Gee, Let me guess!


[QUOTE=JIMV;29540]Ask John Edwards..he is the fellow relying on class pandering for votes, and might just get enough

Why is Jim, that Everytime YOU're Asked a question...You say..."Go ask" someone else? Perhaps because you KNOW the answer, you just won't admit the answer?

For a guy who acts like he knows "everything" you sure as hell have answers for nothing!

[Drivesme]

[QUOTE=McGyver]
Right.....and who do you think Buys MORE Access and Influence....all those little "victims?" OR.....all those NRA Lobbyists and Defense Contractors??? Ummmm....Gee, Let me guess!




Why is Jim, that Everytime YOU're Asked a question...You say..."Go ask" someone else? Perhaps because you KNOW the answer, you just won't admit the answer?

For a guy who acts like he knows "everything" you sure as hell have answers for nothing!

Maybe there just isn't a good "lather, rinse, repeat' answer that has been fed to him?

[JIMV]

You are not asking for view, you are creating scenarios based on imaginary facts and events and then demanding I agree to your underlying whimsey.

When you ask a clear question without all the BS BDS baggage attached, I'll consider answering.:cool:

[Drivesme]

Yep, no handy "lather, rinse, repeat" answer from the mother ship!:D

[Bruce McAuley]

Ask John Edwards..he is the fellow relying on class pandering for votes, and might just get enough

In other words, John Edwards is NOT taking the Defense money, is THAT what you really mean, Jim?
Like he has to make up SOMEWHERE for not being a Defense Pig or a Health Care Whore??

Who are the Asians betting on?:confused:
Last I heard they're selling dollars...:eek:

Bruce

[Drivesme]

Everyone is selling dollars!

[JIMV]

EXACTLY....Sounds like a Broken Record and a Severe Case of LDS if you ask me! (And no, I don't mean the Religion! :D)

LDS = LIBERAL DERANGEMENT SYNDROME


************************************************** ***********************************************

Cannot even come up with your own slogan to describe disagreement...sad.

[Drivesme]

Cannot even come up with your own slogan to describe disagreement...sad.
You are trying to claim credit for "BDS" jimmy??
You know that isn't going to work.:rolleyes:

In fact LDS is original, it just makes fun of your unoriginal copy.:D

[JIMV]

You are trying to claim credit for "BDS" jimmy??
You know that isn't going to work.:rolleyes:

In fact LDS is original, it just makes fun of your unoriginal copy.:D

No, that was Krauthammer. LDS is simply a poor immitation for those lacking imagination.

[Drivesme]

No, that was Krauthammer. LDS is simply a poor immitation for those lacking imagination.

No, what it is is mocking your nonsense, that is what it is!:D:D

[McGyver]

No, that was Krauthammer. LDS is simply a poor immitation for those lacking imagination.

:D Jim just hates it, when his own bullshit comes back to bite him in the ass! :D He truly believes there should be One set of rules for HIM and One for Everyone Else! Sorry Jim...Ain't gonna happen!

[GUS]

Speaking of Asian Market, isn't anyone worried about Micron and our other outsourcing computer chip makers who are in great danger of being taken over by Korean manufacturers like HYNIX. It is all very nice that the USA is strong in AIRPLANES and ARMS but losing our other manufacturing strengths is putting us in an international weakened position. "W" has sold such a big hunk of our kid's wealth to China and Japan that our economic position is also very tenuous. All those pre-Pelosi big tax breaks to the rich and the expensive oil war has depleated far more than our reputation of honesty and strength.

[Drivesme]

Speaking of Asian Market, isn't anyone worried about Micron and our other outsourcing computer chip makers who are in great danger of being taken over by Korean manufacturers like HYNIX. It is all very nice that the USA is strong in AIRPLANES and ARMS but losing our other manufacturing strengths is putting us in an international weakened position. "W" has sold such a big hunk of our kid's wealth to China and Japan that our economic position is also very tenuous. All those pre-Pelosi big tax breaks to the rich and the expensive oil war has depleated far more than our reputation of honesty and strength.
It's reaganomics and it has destroyed this country.
The change since raygun took office economically in this country 180 degrees from where we were before.
We are on the road to ruin and picking up speed.

[JIMV]

Asian markets down last night, Europe up a small bit and we are having a good day with the DOW. Gold $863...Silver around $15.

[JIMV]

The DOW is down again and gold about $880...its the economy, forget the war, old news, already about won. It will be class envy against merit and talent.:eek:

[lenny]

The DOW is down again and gold about $880...its the economy, forget the war, old news, already about won. It will be class envy against merit and talent.


I don't think the war and the economy should be thought of as separate issues. Haven't we wasted around 1,000,000,000,000 thus far on the crusade? Seems like borrowing that money and investing it in making people hate America with a passion was incredibly foolish. If you're going to borrow and spend a trillion dollars it seems that burning the flesh off of men, women, and children, and then pushing the survivors around at the point of a gun is a criminally insane idea.

[Drivesme]

The DOW is down again and gold about $880...its the economy, forget the war, old news, already about won. It will be class envy against merit and talent.:eek:
It is the economy and your party has ruined it, that is why your party is out the door.

[JIMV]

I don't think the war and the economy should be thought of as separate issues. Haven't we wasted around 1,000,000,000,000 thus far on the crusade? Seems like borrowing that money and investing it in making people hate America with a passion was incredibly foolish. If you're going to borrow and spend a trillion dollars it seems that burning the flesh off of men, women, and children, and then pushing the survivors around at the point of a gun is a criminally insane idea.

Assuming your number is right and ignoring the characterization of the effort as it is simply a partisan opinion, we have $1 trillion over 4 years of $250 Billion a year. The US budget for this year is $2.77 Trillion so, the $250 billion for the war (your figure) is about 9% of the total budget...9 pennies out of every dollar spent.

Perhaps if you looked a little more closely at the actual money spent on wasted programs, pork, and vote buying you would see where the real problem lies.

Or perhaps not.

And, to avoid Drivesme's claim that I made up the number

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/tables.html

[JIMV]

It is the economy and your party has ruined it, that is why your party is out the door.

perhaps but you have to look at the trends. For the first time since 2002, republican party registrations have risen while the democrat 6% advantage from 2006 has been cut in half. For the first time in two years, republican fund raising is back on track and the democrat congress has the lowest approval ratings in congressional history.

Trends...who is on the upswing and who is losing ground....the dems had a big advantage a year ago...almost gone now. Oboma has the ablity to slow the drop, but when he has to compete with the republican candidate in a few months, that ability will be challenged.

No normal folk want a tax increase and that is all the dems offer.

[lenny]

Assuming your number is right and ignoring the characterization of the effort as it is simply a partisan opinion, we have $1 trillion over 4 years of $250 Billion a year. The US budget for this year is $2.77 Trillion so, the $250 billion for the war (your figure) is about 9% of the total budget...9 pennies out of every dollar spent.

Perhaps if you looked a little more closely at the actual money spent on wasted programs, pork, and vote buying you would see where the real problem lies.

Or perhaps not.

And, to avoid Drivesme's claim that I made up the number

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/tables.html

My characterization of the undeclared war isn't "partisan spin" (what party is that anyway?), and my central point remains true: That the economy and foreign policies of imperial occupation and war should not be thought of as separate issue's by voters in this election -- which is something you were asserting when you said "its the economy, forget the war, old news, already about won. It will be class envy against merit and talent." When Americans think of the economy as an issue in this election I absolutely believe most should, and probably will, look at the mis-investments made in foolish nation building crusades and recognize that that money could have been used in far better ways.

We could bicker about the numbers and what they may or may not be, but if you count what will actually be spent when it's all said and done (whatever that means) it's easily going to top a trillion. After a quick google search it's clear that we haven't "spent" 1 trillion yet, but if you count future obligations of medical treatment, interest on the money we borrowed -- in other words, sift through all the spin -- then yeah, we have committed to spending that and more. Your opinion that obligating other peoples children and grandchildren to pay for such foolishness is clearly in the minority at this point so I can see why you would want people to see the war and economy as being separate issues.

[JIMV]

My characterization of the undeclared war isn't "partisan spin" (what party is that anyway?), and my central point remains true: That the economy and foreign policies of imperial occupation and war should not be thought of as separate issue's by voters in this election -- which is something you were asserting when you said "its the economy, forget the war, old news, already about won. It will be class envy against merit and talent." When Americans think of the economy as an issue in this election I absolutely believe most should, and probably will, look at the mis-investments made in foolish nation building crusades and recognize that that money could have been used in far better ways.

We could bicker about the numbers and what they may or may not be, but if you count what will actually be spent when it's all said and done (whatever that means) it's easily going to top a trillion. After a quick google search it's clear that we haven't "spent" 1 trillion yet, but if you count future obligations of medical treatment, interest on the money we borrowed -- in other words, sift through all the spin -- then yeah, we have committed to spending that and more. Your opinion that obligating other peoples children and grandchildren to pay for such foolishness is clearly in the minority at this point so I can see why you would want people to see the war and economy as being separate issues.

"That the economy and foreign policies of imperial occupation and war should not be thought of as separate issue's by voters in this election "

'Should' not be thought of as separate issues are not how Americans think or vote. We vote on issues, sound bites, and simple. We don't do complex well. Everything is reduced to a bumper sticker. The idea that many, not to mention most, voters understand their government, politics, or any issue beyond the superficial, at the best, flys in the face of decades of on the street interviews.

Heck, the majority of the country dos not even know who the secretary of state or Defense are. They cannot find Iran on a map without help, and have no more idea of basic economics than a common house cat.

Winning wars costs a lot of money. What did 911 cost the economy?

per this source, voer 2 trillion dollars.

Counting the value of lives lost as well as property damage and lost production of goods and services, losses already exceed $100 billion. Including the loss in stock market wealth -- the market's own estimate arising from expectations of lower corporate profits and higher discount rates for economic volatility -- the price tag approaches $2 trillion.

http://www.iags.org/costof911.html

My point was not that the war was inexpensive, but that as a part of the total spending, it was minor. We stop defnding ourselves to save money way after the point we cut pork and pandering in my world.

[Drivesme]

perhaps but you have to look at the trends. For the first time since 2002, republican party registrations have risen while the democrat 6% advantage from 2006 has been cut in half. For the first time in two years, republican fund raising is back on track and the democrat congress has the lowest approval ratings in congressional history.
You still trying to make something of that??
Good luck.

Trends...who is on the upswing and who is losing ground....the dems had a big advantage a year ago...almost gone now. Oboma has the ablity to slow the drop, but when he has to compete with the republican candidate in a few months, that ability will be challenged.
The only ones losing, is the American people and the republicans.

No normal folk want a tax increase and that is all the dems offer.
According to the GOP and the GOP only.

[lenny]

"That the economy and foreign policies of imperial occupation and war should not be thought of as separate issue's by voters in this election "

'Should' not be thought of as separate issues are not how Americans think or vote. We vote on issues, sound bites, and simple. We don't do complex well. Everything is reduced to a bumper sticker. The idea that many, not to mention most, voters understand their government, politics, or any issue beyond the superficial, at the best, flys in the face of decades of on the street interviews.

Heck, the majority of the country dos not even know who the secretary of state or Defense are. They cannot find Iran on a map without help, and have no more idea of basic economics than a common house cat.

Shoot Jim, you might actually have found us some common ground here. It very well could have been silly for me to think that the average American would have much of a clue about either point of view.

Winning wars costs a lot of money. What did 911 cost the economy?

per this source, voer 2 trillion dollars.



http://www.iags.org/costof911.html

My point was not that the war was inexpensive, but that as a part of the total spending, it was minor. We stop defnding ourselves to save money way after the point we cut pork and pandering in my world.

I suppose my point, possibly not expressed above, would be that spending a trillion on killing people, blowing up their infrastructure, occupying their countries, etc. sows such a deep seeded hatred that it makes another 911 more likely. Outside of making life easier and better for war profiteers, what has Bush's foriegn policy done to add stability to this countries economic future? Horrible investment.

[JIMV]

We'vw not been attacked in 6 years. As any attaqck of similiar size would again cost trillions, that is something.

Where we differ is in how we characterize the spending for the war. You consider it a mistake and I consider it essential. The future will show who is right.

[NuclearShadows]

don't you think having a totally educated society, everyone healthy, everyone sheltered, clothed and fed is essential? I agree that there is too much pork in the budget. Cut the pork and finance universal health care and free education for all Americans... And then go after pentagon waste...

[JIMV]

don't you think having a totally educated society, everyone healthy, everyone sheltered, clothed and fed is essential? I agree that there is too much pork in the budget. Cut the pork and finance universal health care and free education for all Americans... And then go after pentagon waste...

Not at the cost of our economic freedon, freedom, or security. There is only so much money out there and providing free goodies to folk is of a lower priority to me than freedom and security.

We could not finance either education or health care from pork. Overt pork is only about $40 billion of the budget (earmarks). Coorporate welfare might double or tripple that but health care alone is a trillion dollar cost.

As to education, we already spend far more than the efort is worth, judging by the results. Do you really believe we effectively spend the Billions already in the budget. Look at the Idaho budget...

The Idaho state education chunk of the $5.7 Billion budget is 2,279,861,800.

That is over 1/3 of the state budget....thats a lot of cash.

http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/budget/publications/PDFs/LBB/FY2009/LBBFrame.htm

Check the 'all funds comparisons' tables.

They are talking about a proposed 6.8% increase in state spending from 08 to 09. Did you get a 6.8% pay raise? I didn't.

[Drivesme]

Not at the cost of our economic freedon, freedom, or security. There is only so much money out there and providing free goodies to folk is of a lower priority to me than freedom and security.

We could not finance either education or health care from pork. Overt pork is only about $40 billion of the budget (earmarks). Coorporate welfare might double or tripple that but health care alone is a trillion dollar cost.

As to education, we already spend far more than the efort is worth, judging by the results. Do you really believe we effectively spend the Billions already in the budget. Look at the Idaho budget...

The Idaho state education chunk of the $5.7 Billion budget is 2,279,861,800.

That is over 1/3 of the state budget....thats a lot of cash.

http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/budget/publications/PDFs/LBB/FY2009/LBBFrame.htm

Check the 'all funds comparisons' tables.

They are talking about a proposed 6.8% increase in state spending from 08 to 09. Did you get a 6.8% pay raise? I didn't.
What is the results of spending trillions on guns and bombs jimmy?
We are less free and less secure today then ever before.

Seems we get far better results buying education and food than we do your bombs.

[JIMV]

What is the results of spending trillions on guns and bombs jimmy?
We are less free and less secure today then ever before.

Seems we get far better results buying education and food than we do your bombs.

So you say, but you offer no proof, again.

[Erika]

It's a return of U.S. taxdollars to the needs of U.S. citizens.

War-mongering against third world nations is no longer in favor. Helping our own is.

[JIMV]

It's a return of U.S. taxdollars to the needs of U.S. citizens.

War-mongering against third world nations is no longer in favor. Helping our own is.

If you take from one group to give to another, for votes, you are producing goodies.

[Erika]

It is that simple. To imply that the average voter has the clout to buy votes is almost insane. It is the rich and the lobbyists who carry that clout.

[Drivesme]

So you say, but you offer no proof, again.

Neither did you jimmy, tit for tat.
Why do insist on playing this game?

[Drivesme]

If you take from one group to give to another, for votes, you are producing goodies.
So you say, but you offer no proof, again.

[JIMV]

It is that simple. To imply that the average voter has the clout to buy votes is almost insane. It is the rich and the lobbyists who carry that clout.

No, stealing from the rich to provide programs for the poor, so they will vote for one, is simply how the game is played.

[JIMV]

So you say, but you offer no proof, again.

top 10% pay 90% of the taxes....proof, except to the terminally class envious.

[lenny]

I'd like to take the time today to dedicate this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuyh4OOueCI&feature=related) to you Jim. Enjoy! :p

[Drivesme]

No, stealing from the rich to provide programs for the poor, so they will vote for one, is simply how the game is played.

So you say, but you offer no proof, again.

[Drivesme]

top 10% pay 90% of the taxes....proof, except to the terminally class envious.

Yep, proof of....nothing, but you go with it jimmy, stick to your talking points!

[JIMV]

Obviously rational thought and clear reasoning are not in your repetoire. :D

[JIMV]

I'd like to take the time today to dedicate this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuyh4OOueCI&feature=related) to you Jim. Enjoy! :p

Ah, irving Berlin...

I'll go with Irving Berlin over this old Cestnut, dedicated to you:

http://www.authentichistory.com/1930s/music/1932-Brother_Can_You_Spare_a_Dime.html

"Brother, Can You Spare a Dime," lyrics by Yip Harburg, music by Jay Gorney (1931)

They used to tell me I was building a dream, and so I followed the mob,
When there was earth to plow, or guns to bear, I was always there right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream, with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?

Once I built a railroad, I made it run, made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad; now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower, up to the sun, brick, and rivet, and lime;
Once I built a tower, now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?

Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell,
Full of that Yankee Doodly Dum,
Half a million boots went slogging through Hell,
And I was the kid with the drum!

Say, don't you remember, they called me Al; it was Al all the time.
Why don't you remember, I'm your pal? Buddy, can you spare a dime?

Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell,
Full of that Yankee Doodly Dum,
Half a million boots went slogging through Hell,
And I was the kid with the drum!

Say, don't you remember, they called me Al; it was Al all the time.
Say, don't you remember, I'm your pal? Buddy, can you spare a dime?

That is where the dems are taking us, if they gain power.

Market is up today but that won't last.;)

[NuclearShadows]

Could this be our JIMV in todays Statesman letters to the editor?
Sounds like him..

http://www.idahostatesman.com/letters/story/261360.html

Health care is not a right to be paid for by someone else

I didn't read Ms. Barron's letter on health care but, to judge by the hysteric response in the Statesman on Dec. 28, I must conclude the good woman reminded some of our more feeble-minded residents that there is no such a thing as a free lunch. It appears at least three writers are of the opinion that their divine right to affordable health care must surely be funded by some other poor fool.

Perhaps if those loudly proclaiming their right to health care were to actually pay the real cost of their whimsy, they would be less inclined to believe in a free lunch.

In fact, I wish for once that those demanding largess at someone else's expense were forced to put their money where their mouths are.

Fat chance.

JIM VERDOLINI, Boise

[JIMV]

Could this be our JIMV in todays Statesman letters to the editor?
Sounds like him..

http://www.idahostatesman.com/letters/story/261360.html

Health care is not a right to be paid for by someone else

I didn't read Ms. Barron's letter on health care but, to judge by the hysteric response in the Statesman on Dec. 28, I must conclude the good woman reminded some of our more feeble-minded residents that there is no such a thing as a free lunch. It appears at least three writers are of the opinion that their divine right to affordable health care must surely be funded by some other poor fool.

Perhaps if those loudly proclaiming their right to health care were to actually pay the real cost of their whimsy, they would be less inclined to believe in a free lunch.

In fact, I wish for once that those demanding largess at someone else's expense were forced to put their money where their mouths are.

Fat chance.

JIM VERDOLINI, Boise

Tis I..the original 3 writers all seemed to think health care money grows on trees, someone elses trees.

[Erika]

As Mrs. Clinton clarified, 75% of D.C. healthcare is paid by taxpayers. Why isn't Sali bucking this?

[Bruce McAuley]

We pay twice as much as Britain, France, or Canada, and they get BETTER care and live longer.
How do they do it, Jim?
Single payer health care cuts out the MIDDLEMAN, Jim.
You know, the HMO that decides against expensive operations and lets you die for their profit.
Whatta deal, right?
Talk about STEALING your money, Jim, that's the WORST.:eek:
Wake up.

Bruce

[Erika]

Again, our D.C. reps have 75% of their health costs paid by taxpayers. That includes Crapo, Craig, Simpson, Sali. Those welfare recipents.

Hillary wants that same plan to apply to the rest of us.

[NuclearShadows]

JIMV likes to post stuff from the American Thinker. Here is an article from there (http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/12/a_conservative_case_for_univer.html) where a conservative says he could live with universal health care and why. He shows the numbers.

Just in pentagon waste (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml) we could finance it.

[JIMV]

That makes no sense....medicare in the 2008 budget alone is $482 Billion. Medicaid alone is $277 Billion for a total in entitlements alone of $759 Billion...I suspect a big part of the non SS mandatory spending listed as other, another $374 Billion, is health care related.

The entier defense budget is 481 Billion...throw in homeland security and you get another $35 Billion. Include the off budget war costs and you add at the most $250 Billion, (probably closer to half that)...total $766 or so billion.

I must assume the good writer sort of forgot all the health care we already provide and is only speakng of spending on those not already getting this form of goodie. Even then, the gold plated programs the left promises would eat up hundreds of billions a year, forever....

http://origin.www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy08/browse.html

Go to the summary tables.

[JIMV]

We pay twice as much as Britain, France, or Canada, and they get BETTER care and live longer.
How do they do it, Jim?
Single payer health care cuts out the MIDDLEMAN, Jim.
You know, the HMO that decides against expensive operations and lets you die for their profit.
Whatta deal, right?
Talk about STEALING your money, Jim, that's the WORST.:eek:
Wake up.

Bruce

I've lived in the UK and Italy. Their better care is solely in the eyes of partisans on the issue. Try getting a life saving transplant there, or the most modern drugs.

[Notus Lotus]

I've lived in the UK and Italy. Their better care is solely in the eyes of partisans on the issue. Try getting a life saving transplant there, or the most modern drugs.


Ever tried getting them HERE?

[Bruce McAuley]

You go into a Pharmacy in any of the European or Mediterranean countries and the drugs most people need are readily available for very low cost, compared to here.
Specialized stuff?
All I know is it costs more here.:eek:
Go watch "Sicko", Jim.

Bruce

[JIMV]

Ever tried getting them HERE?

Buy your insurance and get your health care.

[JIMV]

You go into a Pharmacy in any of the European or Mediterranean countries and the drugs most people need are readily available for very low cost, compared to here.
Specialized stuff?
All I know is it costs more here.:eek:
Go watch "Sicko", Jim.

Bruce

Michael Moore is noted for, I'll be kind, sort of making it up.:D

[Notus Lotus]

Buy your insurance and get your health care.

Honey, you'll still be at the mercy of your particular insurance company, whose first step will be to deny any of your claims, particularly as related to transplants and "modern" drugs.

[Drivesme]

Even then, the gold plated programs the left promises would eat up hundreds of billions a year, forever....


You offer no proof.....again.

[Drivesme]

Michael Moore is noted for, I'll be kind, sort of making it up.:D

Well not really but in your partisan little world, I guess you will believe anything.

[Drivesme]

Honey, you'll still be at the mercy of your particular insurance company, whose first step will be to deny any of your claims, particularly as related to transplants and "modern" drugs.
jimmy's 'insurance company' is the US Govt.

[JIMV]

In part, as was promied for service, and as it should be. You should try earning a benefit some day. It would be good for you.;)

[JIMV]

Honey, you'll still be at the mercy of your particular insurance company, whose first step will be to deny any of your claims, particularly as related to transplants and "modern" drugs.

It this was a universal problem, or even wide spread, in addition to the trial lawyers having a grand old time, no one would buy from such companies.

Have you had claims denied fr service you have pruchased (as opposed to trying to get service not n the policy)? I don't know of anyone who has, but I am sure now and again it does occur.

[JIMV]

Well not really but in your partisan little world, I guess you will believe anything.

I know he made up half of his anti gun epic.

[GUS]

If malpractice lawyers were making so much money why is it so difficult to find one? How many do you think there are in Idaho? 2 or 3?

[Drivesme]

In part, as was promied for service, and as it should be. You should try earning a benefit some day. It would be good for you.;)

Don't lie about other people jimmy.

[JIMV]

Not every state is kind to the ambulance chasers. Is Idaho's health care worse than it is in states with a higher jackel to citizen ratio?

[Drivesme]

I know he made up half of his anti gun epic.
Like I said, in your partisan little world you will believe anything that you are told.

[Drivesme]

Not every state is kind to the ambulance chasers. Is Idaho's health care worse than it is in states with a higher jackel to citizen ratio?
Considering that most of Idaho lives below the poverty line, I would say...yes.

[JIMV]

Like I said, in your partisan little world you will believe anything that you are told.

I would attempt to demonstrate his numerous lies and misstatements on that issue, but your ability to understand any argument you do not agree with is so limited that the effort is not worthwhile.

I believe what I can prove on that issue. YOU believe what you agree with, even if it is nonsense and even when you have no idea what your belief is based on. It is so because you say so.

As one who has never, to my recollection, posted an argument that was more than your opinion, I see your accusation as somewhat amusing:rolleyes:

[JIMV]

Considering that most of Idaho lives below the poverty line, I would say...yes.

You forgot the link again.

[Drivesme]

I would attempt to demonstrate his numerous lies and misstatements on that issue, but your ability to understand any argument you do not agree with is so limited that the effort is not worthwhile.

I believe what I can prove on that issue. YOU believe what you agree with, even if it is nonsense and even when you have no idea what your belief is based on. It is so because you say so.

As one who has never, to my recollection, posted an argument that was more than your opinion, I see your accusation as somewhat amusing:rolleyes:

Don't lie about people jimmy.

[JIMV]

Whatever you say junior, whatever keeps you happy;)

[JIMV]

You go into a Pharmacy in any of the European or Mediterranean countries and the drugs most people need are readily available for very low cost, compared to here.
Specialized stuff?
All I know is it costs more here.:eek:
Go watch "Sicko", Jim.

Bruce

an interesting article:

[quote]Five million Canadians are currently without a family doctor-and things are only getting worse
CATHY GULLI AND KATE LUNAU | Jan 2, 2008 | 12:23 pm EST

Five million Canadians—approximately 15 per cent of the population—don't have a family doctor. Here, College of Family Physicians of Canada president Dr. Ruth Wilson shares tips on how these people can get themselves a physician.


Caution: don’t get sick in rural Canada | The Macleans.ca Interview: Dr. Michael Jong
When Jennifer realized she was pregnant last summer, she called her family doctor’s office to make an appointment for a referral to an obstetrician. Having delivered her first daughter almost three years ago, she knew the drill. But when the secretary picked up and said that her physician had shut down her practice and left Toronto “to spend more time with her family,” Jennifer was stunned.

http://www.macleans.ca/science/health/article.jsp?content=20080102_122329_6200

[Bruce McAuley]

At least 5% of Canadians or more live in the outback. It's a LONG way to a hospital.
So what? At least Macleans has the guts to point out flaws in their system.
OUR system is so riddled with flaws it's essentially un-savable.
You got something better, Jim?
Trot it out.
I'll take Japan's system of health care. Are they Socialists too?
They spend less than half what we do.

Bruce

[JIMV]

At least 5% of Canadians or more live in the outback. It's a LONG way to a hospital.
So what? At least Macleans has the guts to point out flaws in their system.
OUR system is so riddled with flaws it's essentially un-savable.
You got something better, Jim?
Trot it out.
I'll take Japan's system of health care. Are they Socialists too?
They spend less than half what we do.

Bruce

You misread...5 million out of a population of 33,390,141 (July 2007 est.)

that is closer to 20% than 5.

If they are the path why are so many without doctors and why are so many canadian doctors in the USA?

[Drivesme]

an interesting article:

[quote]Five million Canadians are currently without a family doctor-and things are only getting worse
CATHY GULLI AND KATE LUNAU | Jan 2, 2008 | 12:23 pm EST

Five million Canadians—approximately 15 per cent of the population—don't have a family doctor. Here, College of Family Physicians of Canada president Dr. Ruth Wilson shares tips on how these people can get themselves a physician.


Caution: don’t get sick in rural Canada | The Macleans.ca Interview: Dr. Michael Jong
When Jennifer realized she was pregnant last summer, she called her family doctor’s office to make an appointment for a referral to an obstetrician. Having delivered her first daughter almost three years ago, she knew the drill. But when the secretary picked up and said that her physician had shut down her practice and left Toronto “to spend more time with her family,” Jennifer was stunned.

http://www.macleans.ca/science/health/article.jsp?content=20080102_122329_6200

You didn't read this very well did you jimmy?