Romney wins big in Maine

[JIMV]

The Maine caucus results have Romney up 51% to about 21% over McCain.

[Erika]

It's necessary for his Godship in his rule of his own planet.

[NuclearShadows]

Huckabee was a loser also and good old Ron Paul got 19% and that is still significant I think.

[GUS]

If it wasn't for Huckabee I believe Romney would beat McCain. Certainly Romney knows a whole lot about economics and is not a war monger who couldn't care less that the oil war lasts 100 years. I wonder why all the Republicans who love to delve into the past and talk of Monica don't speak of McCain's years of screwing around on his first wife while she was recovering from a terrible auto accident. The old fart is 17 years older than his present wife and has more kids than Romney. McCain's mother is still alive so he could be a 2 term war president just like DUmbya.

Huckabee was a loser also and good old Ron Paul got 19% and that is still significant I think.

[McGyver]

Absolutely True Gus. I keep asking myself Why the Hell is Huckabee still in this race? Only ONE answer....To keep Romney from getting "all" of the "So Called, PURE Conservative votes.

Let's face it folks, Republicans don't have a candidate this time around. Many Conservatives are saying that IF John McCain gets the nomination, they will vote for Hillary Clinton! I think that about says it all!

[lenny]

Republicans voting for Hillary over McCain? Seems like a stretch.

[GUS]

I think there are numerous conservative republicans who are against McCain because he wants continuous war and cares little about the economy. Yes, those who are tired of a stupid war that is not going to win or accomplish anything may vote for Hillary. Those who think the war, which was based on lies, is heading our country into a depression may also vote for Hillary. Those who would vote for Hillary would certainly rather vote for Romney. Again these radical religious dumbos may push our country into another destructive presidency like the present one.

Republicans voting for Hillary over McCain? Seems like a stretch.

[lenny]

I think there are numerous conservative republicans who are against McCain because he wants continuous war and cares little about the economy. Yes, those who are tired of a stupid war that is not going to win or accomplish anything may vote for Hillary. Those who think the war, which was based on lies, is heading our country into a depression may also vote for Hillary. Those who would vote for Hillary would certainly rather vote for Romney. Again these radical religious dumbos may push our country into another destructive presidency like the present one.

Why would anyone who is tired of the war vote for Hillary? She's part of the reason we are there now, and is running on a platform to continue with war.

Oh wait, I know. If you're against the war you can vote for Hillary because she might sort of mostly end the war by 2013 or expand it into Iran. That's great news for all those who get to die and have their limbs blown off over the next 5 years.

Oh yeah, and as far as the economy, what's the plan? Borrow from China, lower interest rates, and print money? Sweet, that's worked great for the last 50 years...couldn't have anything to do with the mess we're in now though.

[GUS]

Hillary is not running on a platform to continue with war. She said in the paper today and on the talk shows that if she is elected president she would start removing the troops within 6 months and have them all out within 2 years.

Yes, you are correct, "Borrow from China, lower interest rates, and print money," are exactly what Bush is doing at present and the Republican candidates say they plan to continue on with his programs.

[JIMV]

yeah...cannot do that as simply taxing the opposition party to by votes from the base is so much more ...democrat.

[McGyver]

Hillary is not running on a platform to continue with war. She said in the paper today and on the talk shows that if she is elected president she would start removing the troops within 6 months and have them all out within 2 years.

Yes, you are correct, "Borrow from China, lower interest rates, and print money,"

Yep, That's correct Gus. You've just stated Bush's Economic Plan in a "NUT"shell!



************************************************** ************************************************** *

[McGyver]

Republicans voting for Hillary over McCain? Seems like a stretch.

You calling me a Liar Lenny? Did you watch the Sunday Morning Political Talk Shows this morning? That's what they're saying. Conservatives HATE John McCain's guts, and will do anything to keep him from being elected President. They call McCain a Liberal, and I'm sure if you asked JimV on this forum, he would tell you the same. Hell, Even Ann Coulter has said that IF John McCain becomes the GOP Nominee, SHE will vote for Hillary Clinton! And we all know how crazy Coultergeist is about The Clintons! And let's not forget that Rush Limbaugh feels exactly the same and states that John McCain "gave up more than his name, rank and serial number when he was captured in Viet Nam," and therefore McCain proved that "Torture WORKED on Him!" These people are Brutal Sociopaths!

Obviously you don't fully understand the "vindictiveness" of the GOP. Guess you missed the part about "Outting a Undercover CIA Operative who was working on WMD in The War on Terror, Just because her husband said something the GOP Administration didn't like!" When it comes to the GOP, you not only have to "watch your back," but you have to watch the back of your wife and children as well.



************************************************** ************************************************** *

[lenny]

You calling me a Liar Lenny? Did you watch the Sunday Morning Political Talk Shows this morning? That's what they're saying. Conservatives HATE John McCain's guts, and will do anything to keep him from being elected President. They call McCain a Liberal, and I'm sure if you asked JimV on this forum, he would tell you the same. Hell, Even Ann Coulter has said that IF John McCain becomes the GOP Nominee, SHE will vote for Hillary Clinton! And we all know how crazy Coultergeist is about The Clintons! And let's not forget that Rush Limbaugh feels exactly the same and states that John McCain "gave up more than his name, rank and serial number when he was captured in Viet Nam," and therefore McCain proved that "Torture WORKED on Him!" These people are Brutal Sociopaths!

Obviously you don't fully understand the "vindictiveness" of the GOP. Guess you missed the part about "Outting a Undercover CIA Operative who was working on WMD in The War on Terror, Just because her husband said something the GOP Administration didn't like!" When it comes to the GOP, you not only have to "watch your back," but you have to watch the back of your wife and children as well.



************************************************** ************************************************** *

Um, I just said that the idea that Republicans are going to vote for Hillary over McCain seems like a stretch. I skimmed an article earlier this morning that touched on the subject that maybe some conservatives don't really care for McCain, but I just find the idea that a significant number are going to vote for Hillary instead to be a bit odd. I didn't realize that suggesting Republicans will be more likely to vote for John McCain over Hillary Clinton had become such a controversial and outrageous idea. In fact, I'm going to go against what the talking heads on the T.V. say and stick with it. Any Republicans out there willing to come forward and say that you'll vote for a Clinton because you "hate McCain's guts"? I think that the number of actual Republicans who will vote for Hillary over McCain (if they run in the GE) because of their sheer hatred of the man will be completely trivial and this is just more hype from the bloviators on the T.V.

[lenny]

Yep, That's correct Gus. You've just stated Bush's Economic Plan in a "NUT"shell!



************************************************** ************************************************** *

Hello, there's only one candidate that would stop us from doing this. No one else is even pretending otherwise. This is everyone's economic plan in a nutshell.

[GUS]

Hillary's economic blueprint to restore the American middle class includes:

Lowering taxes for middle class families.
Providing quality, affordable health care to every American.
Making college accessible and affordable.
Confronting the growing problems in the housing market.
Bolstering retirement security by promoting savings and investment.
Returning to fiscal responsibility and moving towards balanced budgets.
Harnessing innovation to create the high-wage jobs of the 21st century.
Creating a $50 billion Strategic Energy Fund to jumpstart research and development of alternative energies.
Strengthening unions and ensuring our trade laws work for all Americans. As president, Hillary will:

Lower taxes for middle class families by: extending the middle class tax cuts including child tax credit and marriage penalty relief, offering new tax cuts for healthcare, college and retirement, and expanding the EITC and the child care tax credit.
Harness the power of innovation to create high wage jobs of the 21st Century. Investments in alternative energy can create new jobs for the 21st century; expanded access to broadband will bring opportunities to underserved and disadvantaged communities; the manufacturing base can be re-energized through creative partnerships; and increased government support for research will stimulate the development of new technologies and life-saving medicines. Hillary will restore integrity to science policy, reversing Bush administration policies that are holding our nation back.
Empower our workers and ensure that all Americans contribute their fair share. Hillary will ensure that unions, which have played an important role in forming and sustaining the middle class, are strong. She will also ensure that trade policies work for average Americans. Trade policy must raise our standard of living, and they must have strong protections for workers and the environment.
Restore the basic bargain. Hillary will restore the basic bargain that if Americans work hard and take responsibility, government will do its part to make sure they have the tools to get ahead.
Return to fiscal responsibility. After six and a half year of President Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, Hillary wants America to regain control of its destiny. She will move back toward a balanced budget and surpluses. Hillary believes that we should develop a set of budget rules similar to those we had in the 90s which required us to fund new expenditures with new revenues or cuts in other areas.


http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/middleclass/

[lenny]

Well Lenny, That may be YOUR "partisan" opinion, but thank the Lord, Most of us have reasoned opinions not based on "sour grapes" because our Candidate doesn't stand an ice cubes chance in hell of ever getting elected. And there's probably a very good reason he doesn't stand a chance of ever getting elected, and it probably has a lot to do with his Wacko Economic Plan! :rolleyes:





************************************************** ************************************************** *

Nonsense. It's not an opinion at all, it's just a simple fact that all the candidates except Paul have no intention of changing monetary policy. There's no controversy at all in what I said.

And I totally agree (except for the Wacko part, but I'm not old so...) that his ideas on economics would have a lot to do with him not being "electable." It's the older generations that decide who gets elected, and everyone knows damn well that they aren't going to do jack about the mess they've created. Better to pass the consequences of their own insane actions on to the Grand kids than to begin to deal with em now.

[JIMV]

True enough BUT, no one have asked has been able to describe Paul's economic program beyond simple slogans like 'go back to the gold standard'.

Just what the devil does that mean?

[lenny]

True enough BUT, no one have asked has been able to describe Paul's economic program beyond simple slogans like 'go back to the gold standard'.

Just what the devil does that mean?

Well, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean 'gold standard' in the classical sense, but rather simply (re)attaching our currency to something(s) solid. Not necessarily just gold. Either way, I think it's safe to say that he's absolutely against having a fiat currency. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q

I've read several very interesting and informed back and forths arguing for and against fiat currency, and being that I strive to reject materialism it's definitely not the most important thing to me, but where he hooks me is when he plainly states we should abolish the "Federal" Reserve. Fiat currency? Gold standard? Well, good luck fighting that out, but I say that taking the power to print money back from the private banks and returning it to the Federal Government as was intended is a huge first step.

[Bruce McAuley]

Fiat currency?
What is digital money but fiat currency?
Cash will be obsolete in 10 or 20 years.
Carry gold around?
Naw, too heavy.:cool:
Plastic money IS fiat currency.
So give everyone in the country a PayPal account, and it gets your incoming money and shows you at a glance where the outgoing money is headed, and only with your consent.
There's FIAT for you...
:eek:

Bruce

[lenny]

Paypal to replace the Federal Reserve, eh? Or is it that the Fed will just run a Paypal-like system? :D

Looks like someone agrees with my post above:

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

[freewolf46]

True enough BUT, no one have asked has been able to describe Paul's economic program beyond simple slogans like 'go back to the gold standard'.

Just what the devil does that mean?

The Four-Point Plan

1. Tax Reform: Reduce the tax burden and eliminate taxes that punish investment and savings, including job-killing corporate taxes.
2. Spending Reform: Eliminate wasteful spending. Reduce overseas commitments. Freeze all non-defense, non-entitlement spending at current levels.
3. Monetary Policy Reform: Expand openness at the Federal Reserve and require the Fed to televise its meetings. Return value to our money.
4. Regulatory Reform: Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley regulations that push companies to seek capital outside of US markets. Stop restricting community banks from fostering local economic growth.

1. Tax Reform

* Eliminate Taxes on Dividends and Savings. The basis of capitalism is savings, and Americans who do so should be rewarded.
o Pass HJ Res. 23 to encourage savings over consumption.

* Repeal the Death Tax. Attacking small businesses and breaking up family farms smothers growth and kills jobs.
o Pass H.R. 2734 to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

* Cut Taxes for Working Seniors. Grandmothers and grandfathers working to make ends meet should keep all the fruits of their labor.
o Pass H.R. 191 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal the inclusion in gross income of Social Security benefits.

* Eliminate Taxes on Social Security Benefits. That money belongs to seniors, not the government. They paid into the system for a lifetime, and they should be free to spend every penny as they see fit.
o Pass H.R. 192 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal the 1993 increase in taxes on Social Security benefits.

* Accelerate Depreciation on Investment. We need to help companies grow and create jobs.
o Pass H.R. 4995 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to reduce corporate marginal income tax rates.

* Eliminate Taxes on Capital Gains. Investment should be embraced and rewarded.
o Pass H.J. Res 23 (The “Liberty Amendment”), proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.

* Eliminate Taxes on Tips.The single parents and working students who earn their income chiefly through tips deserve to keep all of their money. This tax on "estimated income" is unfair and should be ended.
o Pass H.R. 3664 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide that tips shall not be subject to income or employment taxes.

* Support the Mortgage Cancellation Relief Act. Working families who lost their homes should not be punished a second time with a big IRS bill.
o Pass H.R. 1876 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to exclude from the gross income of individual taxpayers discharges of indebtedness attributable to certain forgiven residential mortgage obligations.

2. Spending Reform

* Reduce Overseas Military Commitments. Our bases and troops should be on our soil.
o It's time to stop subsidizing our trading partners in Europe, Japan and South Korea.

* Freeze Non-Defense, Non-Entitlement Spending at Current Levels
o I vote against all bloated, pork laden spending bills and will veto them as president.

3. Monetary Policy Reform

* Televise Federal Open Market Committee Meetings. An institution as powerful as the Federal Reserve deserves full public scrutiny.

* Expand Transparency and Accountability at the Federal Reserve
o Pass H.R. 2754 to require the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to continue to make available to the public on a weekly basis information on the measure of the M3 monetary aggregate and its components.

* Return Value to Our Money. Legalize gold and silver as a competing currency.
o Level the long-term boom and bust business cycle by passing H.R. 4683, which would repeal provisions of the federal criminal code relating to issuing coins of gold, silver, or other metal for use as current money and making or possessing likenesses of such coins.

4. Regulatory Reform

* Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley. It has seriously wounded our capital markets and helped make the UK a financial center at our expense.
o Ending these misguided regulations would bring jobs flooding back to the United States
o Pass H.R. 1049 to reform Sarbanes-Oxley and reduce the burden it places on small businesses.


* Repeal or Remove Costly and Unnecessary Federal Regulations. Neighbors know best how to help their neighbors.
o We need to make it easier for community banks, credit unions, and other financial institutions to better serve their communities and to help people in these communities get access to credit and capital.
o Pass H.R. 1869 to enhance the ability of community banks to foster economic growth and serve their communities, boost small businesses, increase individual savings, and for other purposes.

These are the beginning steps and are listed on his website. They do not get talked about because there is a blackout by the MSM on information about Paul and information is only available through the internet and internet searches along with speeches recorded on you-tube.

In addition to these starting points he has consistently stated that we must cut off all unnecessary foreign spending. The bases we have set up around the world should be in our own country where the economic benefit of these bases and the spending of money by these bases and their residents is taking place in local communities around the country rather than in some other country. Additionally, cutting off free welfare benefits and free medical benefits to illegal immigrants would result in a cut in spending. Besides hospitals closing under the burden, we allow them to take jobs that Americans would be interested in taking, if they themselves weren't dependent on welfare. Example would be: if I can get 250 dollars a week in assistance from the government for doing nothing, and I could make 300 dollars a week for working 40 hours, I would most likely settle for the free cash since the forty hours of work only increases my resources by 50 dollars. It makes those hours of work verses no work, worth only 1.25 per hour. In a case where neither situation really moves me anywhere in standard of living, it's an easy choice. So we pay an American 250 to stay at home, an illegal, 300 to come here and take that job, along with another 100 per week in welfare benefits and medical benefits, we are then paying 650 per week. 350 of it off the taxpayers back.

By cutting out the illegals, we could allow the American to get the three hundred from the employer, give him 100 in benefits that we give to the illegals and save 250 per week while moving that American from 250 per week to 400 per week and save 250 per week in the process.

This also works to solving the crisis of illegal immigration in that if they have nothing to gain from coming here, it would slow the desire, reducing costs in other areas of that issue.

These figures are just used for an example of how it works. Between this and foreign spending alone saves the taxpayer huge amounts of money. These are just small examples out of many, very many ideas, in addition to his plan as laid out above.

This is a start in the direction only, but at least the plan he laid out above is more specific in detail than any' other candidates plans, as it includes legislation already proposed where as every one else just keeps saying, "we must address this issue and if I am president I will".

All of it together is just for starters to turn the direction for real change, and he has the backing and endorsements of many of the great economic minds of today, which you also hear almost nothing of.

He states consistently, that there is no need to hurt Americans who have already become dependent on the government, but that we must change the way business is done to give those coming up a better way while those already dependent can pull themselves out through real opportunities.

It didn't get wrecked in a day, and it won't get fixed in a day, and there are also hundreds of other things that all tie into the economic woes of our country and the bills we are racking up that can not possibly be addressed by our grandchildren.

There is no other candidate who recognizes the entire picture, and every single one, democrats and republicans alike are only willing to talk about single areas, (with vague phrases like "we need to address this problem") and not address the entire picture. They have only shown they will only attack certain areas that do not interfere with benefits to their financial supporters.

In our country, you are permitted to support these candidates and continue to destroy our country for what ever reason you like. Be it to keep the opposing team from control, or be it to support an empire building process where we can control the worlds resources (human and material alike) for power (an it is not even for long term gain for American citizens. They are irrelevant in the global picture beyond what is needed from them to keep the people in power, in power). Your choice. Either way, the mainstream candidates are not for real all inclusive change. All of them from either side is delivering the same crummy hamburger, just fighting over who cooks it and what toppings should be included. None addressing the fact that the beef is tainted.

[NuclearShadows]

The Four-Point Plan



These are the beginning steps and are listed on his website. They do not get talked about because there is a blackout by the MSM on information about Paul and information is only available through the internet and internet searches along with speeches recorded on you-tube.

In addition to these starting points he has consistently stated that we must cut off all unnecessary foreign spending. The bases we have set up around the world should be in our own country where the economic benefit of these bases and the spending of money by these bases and their residents is taking place in local communities around the country rather than in some other country. Additionally, cutting off free welfare benefits and free medical benefits to illegal immigrants would result in a cut in spending. Besides hospitals closing under the burden, we allow them to take jobs that Americans would be interested in taking, if they themselves weren't dependent on welfare. Example would be: if I can get 250 dollars a week in assistance from the government for doing nothing, and I could make 300 dollars a week for working 40 hours, I would most likely settle for the free cash since the forty hours of work only increases my resources by 50 dollars. It makes those hours of work verses no work, worth only 1.25 per hour. In a case where neither situation really moves me anywhere in standard of living, it's an easy choice. So we pay an American 250 to stay at home, an illegal, 300 to come here and take that job, along with another 100 per week in welfare benefits and medical benefits, we are then paying 650 per week. 350 of it off the taxpayers back.

By cutting out the illegals, we could allow the American to get the three hundred from the employer, give him 100 in benefits that we give to the illegals and save 250 per week while moving that American from 250 per week to 400 per week and save 250 per week in the process.

This also works to solving the crisis of illegal immigration in that if they have nothing to gain from coming here, it would slow the desire, reducing costs in other areas of that issue.

These figures are just used for an example of how it works. Between this and foreign spending alone saves the taxpayer huge amounts of money. These are just small examples out of many, very many ideas, in addition to his plan as laid out above.

This is a start in the direction only, but at least the plan he laid out above is more specific in detail than any' other candidates plans, as it includes legislation already proposed where as every one else just keeps saying, "we must address this issue and if I am president I will".

All of it together is just for starters to turn the direction for real change, and he has the backing and endorsements of many of the great economic minds of today, which you also hear almost nothing of.

He states consistently, that there is no need to hurt Americans who have already become dependent on the government, but that we must change the way business is done to give those coming up a better way while those already dependent can pull themselves out through real opportunities.

It didn't get wrecked in a day, and it won't get fixed in a day, and there are also hundreds of other things that all tie into the economic woes of our country and the bills we are racking up that can not possibly be addressed by our grandchildren.

There is no other candidate who recognizes the entire picture, and every single one, democrats and republicans alike are only willing to talk about single areas, (with vague phrases like "we need to address this problem") and not address the entire picture. They have only shown they will only attack certain areas that do not interfere with benefits to their financial supporters.

In our country, you are permitted to support these candidates and continue to destroy our country for what ever reason you like. Be it to keep the opposing team from control, or be it to support an empire building process where we can control the worlds resources (human and material alike) for power (an it is not even for long term gain for American citizens. They are irrelevant in the global picture beyond what is needed from them to keep the people in power, in power). Your choice. Either way, the mainstream candidates are not for real all inclusive change. All of them from either side is delivering the same crummy hamburger, just fighting over who cooks it and what toppings should be included. None addressing the fact that the beef is tainted.



Once again, an excellent post freewolf.
Funny to see you trying to educate JIMV.
Even though Ron Paul doesn't have a chance, just like Kucinich, it sure would be nice if whoever becomes the next prez took some of their ideas and implemented them... But there is most likely little chance of that either... Ho Hum...