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Re: “Double EMS

RE: Donnie Baker,

As far as the 'standard' tranport rate, someone could call our department and inquire. As far as being ashamed, I'm not.
Consider this: Our levy rate vs yours. Please...talk about ashamed. No wonder you don't charge for services. How's about this: You try out your budget at our mil levy rate....So, educate yourself a little before running off again. And with that, I'm done.

Posted by discoboy on 06/13/2009 at 1:21 PM

Re: “Double EMS

RE: Donnie Baker

It is clear to me that you wish to misinform. Therefore, let me again help you. Please pay attention as I will review AGAIN.
1) Ada County EMS Membership: This annual $60.00 membership (similar to LifeFlight) gives a family piece of mind about the financial obligations associated with ambulance transport. Yes, there is a cost incurred. Um...simple economics--any service=cost involved. This $60.00/yr covers everyone living under the roof (Father, mother, and dependant children). The bill is sent to insurance and the rest is written off. In the case of having no insurance: Flat $100.00 per trip fee. Both of these options are excellent. AND combined with the low taxes for our department, this is a great deal for the citizens of Ada County.

Please stop trying to mislead...website references prove that Boise City's budget is roughly 3 times what the ENTIRE Ada County budget is...and that's with taxes and fee for service combined.

2) And...if we needed to justify our budget, we'd likely have fund-raisers also.

Hopefully the citizens of Boise will read ALL of the comments presented here and do research on their own. Only then will they understand the issues presented, how they are currently affected, and how they may possibly be affected in the future.

Posted by discoboy on 06/13/2009 at 12:38 PM

Re: “Double EMS

RE: Donnie Baker

Really??? Is this the best you can do? Where is the website for Ada County Paramedic calendars? How about responding intelligently to actual information presented in these comments...like "faster, cheaper, better"? Boise City residents deserve some actual information.

Posted by discoboy on 06/11/2009 at 6:55 PM

Re: “Double EMS

RE: Donnie Baker

Citing references, quotations, and actual numbers is not "carelessly run[ning] your mouth." If you dispute this, then show your references. Saying how proud you are means nothing.

Posted by discoboy on 06/07/2009 at 12:28 AM

Re: “Double EMS

Due to the fact that the available website regarding Boise City Fire Chief Dennis Doan's comments is not available, I have included them in quotes. FYI, this was taken from the Idaho Fire Chiefs Assocation website, dated 1-27-09.

"Viewpoint From Chief Dennis Doan (Boise FD) 1-27-09

Mark [Niemeyer],

I am opposed to this legislation for multiple reasons and I will be testifying against it.

I have a problem with the provision that requires agencies (cities) to make some showings to the board before increasing level of service. One of the items to be considered by the board is "ems system costs." This is problematic because there is no indication what that means. I am unable to support a provision where we have no idea what the board will consider. Financial considerations about whether a service pencil's or not are judgements reserved for city councils. Additionally it is inappropriate for the board to disallow a city to go into the transport business because it may cost the coutny more to provide service to their citizens or that it may negatively impact their service level.

Does it make sense that the State Fire Marshall's office could pass a bill that includes stipulations regarding their control of fire engine placement with the caveat that it cannot financially harm another agency? Fire Chiefs in this state would never stand for that, why would we support this?

I also believe that it would be infringing on Article XII Section 2 constitutional rights enjoyed by both cities and counties in Idaho. I do not believe it is the EMS Bureau's responsiblity to be evaluating and withholding licensure, or empowering a Board to evaluate, issues related to economic analysis or projected changes in clinical outcome. The Idaho EMS Bureau is not held to account for fiscal decisions made by cities or counties in Idaho. That is why mayors, commissioners and council members are all independently elected for thier respective areas. Withholding licensure based on the Bureau's opinion of projected clinical outcome is inappropriate.

Thank you. Chief Dennis Doan, Boise FD"

I believe Chief Doan's remarks speak for themselves regarding patient care and needless agency spending.

Posted by discoboy on 06/03/2009 at 8:17 AM

Re: “Double EMS

Two of the websites listed unfortunately weren't working. Therefore...
1) Regarding Chief Dennis Doan's comments-here is the corrent website (FYI, if this doesn't work-use Yahoo.com and type in Dennis Doan).
2) Regarding Meridan Fire's 2009 Budget: http://www.meridiancity.org/Departments.as…

I could write more, but I think the citizens of Ada County are smarter than Boise, Meridian, and Kuna Fire give them credit for and don't need it.

Posted by discoboy on 05/24/2009 at 2:34 AM

Re: “Double EMS

RE: Double EMS by Lora Volkert

After reading the article presented here, I felt obligated to set the facts straight on multiple points and to educate the citizens of Ada County as to this (on-going) issue.

1) Duplication of service. The citizens of Ada and Canyon Counties are blessed
by having a current multi-tiered EMS system (Fire and EMS). What this means for patients is that BLS care should be initiated in 4 minutes and ALS care in 8 minutes. These response times are recognized nationally as good goal marks, even as found in the ‘original’ White Paper on EMS. Why is duplication important? 911 calls do not end when the local Fire departments are responding to fire calls. Case in point: The Sweetwater Fire. Ada County Paramedics continued to run 911 calls (virtually without the assistance of any local Fire personnel) during this time. While we appreciate what they were doing at the time, the case is clear…duplication has some limited benefit. I would suggest ‘limited’ because of how often EMS personnel respond quicker to the incident and clear in-coming Fire unit(s).
It has been suggested that Ada County Paramedics should be ‘rolled up’ and taken over by Boise Fire. You might be surprised to know that the vast majority of Ada County Paramedics would be for a single Public Service Entity incorporating Police, Fire, and EMS. Such an entity would save tax payers a substantial amount of money. However, local Fire departments have been unwilling to cooperate. Why? Because Fire departments are unwilling to give up anything. It’s because of this and other factors that a group of dedicated individuals (EMSS Code Task Force) has been trying to blend multiple ideas into a system-wide approach to EMS delivery state-wide. Due to on-going stalling by the local Fire departments, Fire Unions, and Fire Associations (i.e. Idaho Fire Chiefs Association), the State of Idaho EMS Bureau took the issue to the State of Idaho legislature. See the following website (http://www.idahofirechiefs.org/Assests/dep…) for Boise Fire Chief Dennis Doan’s remarks about it. It would also be nice to know what ‘happened’ to Tom Allen, Deputy Chief Nampa Fire. He was ‘laid-off’ after the legislation (SB1108) passed.
Due to the passage of SB1108, all representatives of EMS delivery (including Fire departments) are now obliged to ‘play’ on the same field (stand by to see the law suits that local Fire departments will likely initiate). The new motto is ‘better, faster, cheaper.’ Please feel to attend these meetings to see what happens there, as the places and times are located on the State of Idaho EMS Bureau’s website.
And…considering the next point on City and County taxation, the question of EMS duplication should be seriously considered by all Mayors, City Council members, County Commissioners, and Ada County citizens.

2) Finance. The information presented in the Boise Weekly article seems to suggest how much money could be ‘saved’ by placing a Boise Fire Medic in position in lieu of an Ada County Paramedic. I would simply point out the following information:

Ada County: population--395,000+ persons.
Ada County EMS Budget--$13,614,496 dollars (see http://www.adaweb.net/LinkClick.aspx?filet…). Of this, only $3,760,656 dollars comes from taxes, the rest is fee for service. This equates to $9.52 per person.

Boise City: population—211,000+ persons.
Boise City Fire Budget--$35,154,770 dollars (see http://www.cityofboise.org/financial_manag…). The bulk of these monies come directly from taxes. This equates to $166.00 per person.

Meridian City: population—80,000+ persons.
Meridian Fire Budget--$6,736,229 dollars (see http://www.meridiancity.org/finance/docs/f…).
The bulk of these monies come directly from taxes. This equates to $84.00 per person.

Kuna statistics are currently unavailable for use. However, compared to $9.52, is
there really anything close?

No doubt the argument could be raised about the user fees that Ada County
Paramedics charge. However, given the fact that this department offers a Membership program (similar to St Alphonsus or St Lukes Flight programs), this argument has no merit.
As can be seen with the numbers, which are indisputable, there is clearly a difference in the affect that these different departments have on Ada County residents.
NOTE: FYI, Boise Fire is already planning on spending a large amount of Federal Stimulus money on re-locating and building new stations (see http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/May…). What should trouble tax payers should be watching area Fire departments fight over Fire station locations (examples include Eagle vs Meridian (Meridian won with Station #5), Boise vs NACRF over re-locating Station 9 to Hill Rd, and Meridian vs Kuna). Some of these situations are still continuing, with tax payers in the middle.

3) Quality of Care. Ada County Paramedics are second to none. This is because EMS is their ONLY job, not a side-line. This is especially true as seen by the numbers. Some 65-85% of all calls Fire departments respond to are EMS calls. However, the over-all training by these departments regarding EMS is sorely lacking (see the examples below). These are the same departments that claim to be ‘better’ than ACEMS. Feel free to compare over-all EMS training time in Meridian as well.

EMS training in 2004, under Chief Renn Ross, equates to 2.5%.
EMS training in 2005, under Chief Renn Ross, equates to 17%.
EMS training in 2006, under Chief Renn Ross, equates to 11%.
EMS training in 2007, under Chief Dennis Doan, equates to 3%.

Is this information to say that the local Fire departments are not important in the delivery of EMS? Absolutely not. But they are not the final authority and it’s high time that the general populace understood that. If the citizens of Ada County want a less effective and more costly service, then so be it. But remember, Ada County has been doing this for close to 35 years, is the most experienced, most efficient, and clearly the most cost effective. Do the math yourself, educate yourself, and find out the truth yourself. Only then can you come to the same conclusion I have.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by discoboy on 05/23/2009 at 7:55 PM

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